No Drama.

[BobCat]

Originally Posted by Nani?

Then we begin the process of "clean up" by having a clearly defined set of rules. I've looked over our rules, and quite honestly, they're vaguer than a report made by the FBI on the Constitution.

The rules are not vague.

The interpretations of the rules have gotten so vague that the rules are meaningless.

"what is spam"? Defined as "if the staff doesn't like what you're posting..."

[Nani?]

Well, people are stupid.

LETZ GIVE EVERYONE MODERATOR STATUS LOLZ!!!

[BobCat]

Originally Posted by Nani?

Well, people are stupid.

LETZ GIVE EVERYONE MODERATOR STATUS LOLZ!!!

No, just the good ones.

[Tyroki]

In all honesty, there are VERY few people on these forums who are actually worth giving modship to, and generally they either don't want modship, or haven't been around long enough to be allowed it.

Currently, most of our current mods suck. They may do their job in the forums, but once it comes to speaking, they suck.

And Eva, yeah, you do hold grudges. Thats why you always have to bring up specific things of the past and place instant blame. I like you girl, you're a good mate, but you're a bit like old BC here. Neither of you can let go.

Now what Ryo is really after, is that what happened in the past, stays in the past, and we merely think about the here and now, and either fix or contain the craphouse AnimeB has become to allow it to be more like its old self.

Plain and simple.

*Sits and waits for his hand to be slapped for this post* Yeah, come on. :3 Bring it on. You know I'm right

[George F. Millers]

Lol.

[BobCat]

Originally Posted by Tyroki

I like you girl, you're a good mate, but you're a bit like old BC here. Neither of you can let go.

Hey, I let go already Let it go man

[Dark Evangel]

Originally Posted by Tyroki

And Eva, yeah, you do hold grudges. Thats why you always have to bring up specific things of the past and place instant blame. I like you girl, you're a good mate, but you're a bit like old BC here. Neither of you can let go.

Don't compare me to BC, thanks. I'll explain.

The reason I can't forget is because I AM NOT BEING ALLOWED TO. Since I left MA, this crazy girl called Thousand-Mistress has been harassing me from one site to another, even sending people to harass my forum when all I wanted was to forget.

Then there is KC saying I "am worse than" him and that I'd caused "havoc in other forums". A direct reference to that site where both sides are trying to forget. Then having TM come here as "Pure-chan". You want me to let go? I wish I could, given how I am not given a moment's peace by that looney tunes and the people who joined MA to speak badly about me, even going as far as posting my BluWiki link so it could be tampered with.

I did secure a promise from the MA mods, though: If KC or the others cause ANY MORE drama in MA, they're instantly out. Neither side want my name to be dragged through the mud there, and we both want to forget. But I must be allowed to forget. So it's not me who's the problem, but a certain assortment of fools who can't let go because I injured the pride of one of their own.

Just do not DARE to compare me to BC again. At least I've never altered posts or deleted entries just because I didn't agree with something. And I even listen to others.

I don't hold a grudge as such, but I DO despise people who behave like hooligans.

[☼Pepe☼]

Then BC's going to come and say "I didn't edit posts because I disagreed with them" then drama starts all over again.

See.
Drama's happening (or going to happen), yet no one is insulting anyone.

[Ryo Misaki]

Originally Posted by Pepe

Please remember that stuff that selo says like "zzz Negima Stinks" Can and Will be insulting to some people.

It has happened to me before.
I never insulted anyone, but I insulted something they like. I got punished for it.

So if we go with this plan of yours, we won't be able to say stuff like that, because it can be insulting to some people.

You cant punish someone for expressing opinion... You can, however, do it when it's direct insult to the person.
Though, the problem, as mentioned in above posts after yours... Is interpretation...
That's why reason and proof will be submitted, and someone other than the one 'insulted' will be making the decision.

Some people don't even plan to insult others.
But with what they say, they end up accidentally doing it.

True... Accidents happen all the time. They're usually easily solved with proper speaking, and perhaps an apology. =P

Because banning people for simple insulting?
Not gonna work.

Simply because insulting is purely subjective.
And we cannot have subjective things in our rules; it would be extremely prone to abuse.

For example: What if someone who is usually not insulted by anything, suddenly reports a member for insulting him, but the member said only a little thing that doesn't seem insulting (Example: "anime stinks". Lots of people seemed insulted when George F. Millers said that. But did he insult anyone in particular? No. He just stated his opinion that Disney > Anime in an aggressive manner. )

What then? You ban that person for insulting someone else?
That, unfortunately, is too dictatorial.

We need to have technical, specific rules, wherein opinion and emotion will not get in the way of enforcing them.

No. Not banning. Infracting.
And yes... Infracting DOES lead to an auto-ban... But that's after five times.
Please keep in mind... NEVER do I talk about carelessly swinging the Ban-Hammer. I'm SERIOUSLY against that.
I'm talking about infracting people for SERIOUS insults and flaming.
Expressing an opinion is not in insult. "zzz Negima" (classic Selo) or "Anime sucks!" are opinions and NOT direct insults. Granted, they are childish, and I wish people would take more care with their words... But they will never be infracted. (Even if someone DID want to report that, I would trust that the Mod receiving the report would not be stupid enough to infract for it. It would be over-ruled.)

However, if you attack someone for their opinion... "If you can honestly like something like Negima, you are a worthless sack of ****." THAT is directly offensive, and I'd call someone on it. And if it happens again, I'd reccomend an infraction.

I agree... Technical and Specific rules are in need. But how can we define that? "Direct insults, flames, harassment, or attacks." is about the best I can do. Any better ideas?
Besides, almost everything is questionable... That's why someone needs to be able to judge soundly... Opinions and Emotions are troublesome... That's why my suggested method has someone else do it. (In the case of a member, they cant do it anyway, but they can report. If it's a mod who feels insulted, they should report to someone higher up.) This is in hopes of eliminating the emotional attachment that people get when they are directly involved in a conflict themselves.

Again, I've mentioned... Mods SHOULD be biased and neutral. Decisions should not be made from personal emotion or opinion, but because of careful analysis of the facts.
No, not EVERYONE is like that...
But I'm pretty sure I've covered most of the bases to account for flaws. (Requiring proof. Infracting, not banning. Allowing a decision to be appealed, and admins and staff can review the evidence posted.)

Is this not fair?

Originally Posted by Nani?

REGARDLESS OF ANY PAST PROBLEMS, what we need now is to drop it all. Clean the slate.

I agree fully. Everyone needs to drop this trivial bickering against each other. EVERYONE.

Then we begin the process of "clean up" by having a clearly defined set of rules. I've looked over our rules, and quite honestly, they're vaguer than a report made by the FBI on the Constitution.

I agree, despite BobCat's objection... We DO have some vague rules... And it's hard to make rules that arent. If you have some specific examples and suggestions, I'd love to see them.

Granted... I also AGREE with BobCat on some aspects. It's not always the rule's fault... But the interpretation of the rules.
We say can say "No flaming". But what constitutes flaming? What SOME consider to be offensive may not be to others.
If the decision is left to one person, then the balance may be poor... I think the best way is for a decision to be made from someone detached from the situation, then allowed to be reviewed and appealed by all staff.
Action cannot be taken on hear-say. "He said this..." "They did that..." You can listen... But when you talk to the other side, you'll find everything skewed the other direction. "They started this..." "I only did something in response to that..."
Screen shots and logs of raw conversation is the only way to be able to tell what is truely fact, or just their side of the story.

And Ryo, we already have a HFF. We also need some Serious Discussion, just limited to the sparse population of intellectuals on this board.

Yes... HFF exists. But we DO have the Serious Subforum... And it requires Admin approval, and a password to gain access.
It's a great place, you know. But only if run and handled well. (That was a huge problem not long ago. I'm not getting in to it.)

LETZ GIVE EVERYONE MODERATOR STATUS LOLZ!!!

Not true... If that was the case, I'd be a mod again. =P
Mods are chosen by the discussion of the staff based on what they've seen in the person, as far as personality and activity.
...that's not saying that bad decisions arent sometimes made.

Originally Posted by Tyroki

Currently, most of our current mods suck. They may do their job in the forums, but once it comes to speaking, they suck.

He said it... Not me. =P
I'll withhold my opinion... since I'm not privvy to speak my opinions on a majority of people I dont know well enough.

Now what Ryo is really after, is that what happened in the past, stays in the past, and we merely think about the here and now, and either fix or contain the craphouse AnimeB has become to allow it to be more like its old self.

Thank you... Someone else has taken notice! =P
I'll admit, though... It is a HARD thing to simply drop all harsh feelings against someone who's 'wronged' you.
It's easy for me... but that's just because I'm broken.

But we must. For the sanity of the forum, we cant be holding grudges and hating people.
I'd love to just have a reformat of everything... But I'm too clingy. <_<

We start from now. Past be DAMNED.
And should someone cause trouble because of the past, or create new trouble...
Then they should be infracted in accord to above rule set. ^_^

(I request that George's post be deleted. It is one word, and contains NO value to the conversation here.)

Originally Posted by BobCat

Hey, I let go already

...have you? ...REALLY? I'm not so sure about that... but I hope so. ^_~

Originally Posted by Eva

The reason I can't forget is because I AM NOT BEING ALLOWED TO...

Can I get an edit? =P
I think I said that I dont care for specifics here!
I'm WELL aware of the "beginnings" and "hows and whys". I'm not concerned about them!
We are not here to discuss who did what, or how things went wrong... I dont care about people's personal drama in this thread!
I'm trying to prevent things from occuring in the present and future. That's what this is for.
The past cannot be helped... Only the future can be changed. ^_~

Just do not DARE to compare me to BC again...
I don't hold a grudge as such...

Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here... And chances are I'm gonna get SOO hurt for it...
But I think you just proved Tyroki's point. ^_^;;;

I've told you before... Personality wise, you're quite similar. I'm not saying you've done the things he has... Or that you're the same person in the LEAST bit.
But there will always be people who have similar personality types.
You and BobCat (as much as you seem to loathe hearing it...) have a similar personality.

Of course, there are always people who can be catagorized into groups of personalities... I see it around here ALL the time. =P
And it's good, sometimes... Because it helps you know how to act or treat a certian set of people, because they will likely react in a similar way.

...Why I didnt become a Psycology or Sociology major... is beyond me. ^_^;;;


Anyway, again... PLEASE limit discussion to the topic of the thread.
I dont care about instances... I dont care about the past.
If there is a CURRENT problem with someone... Log it and report it as I had outlined above!

And... Can SOMEONE find me an Admin for this thread? =P

[Dark Evangel]

Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here... And chances are I'm gonna get SOO hurt for it...
But I think you just proved Tyroki's point. ^_^;;;

I've told you before... Personality wise, you're quite similar. I'm not saying you've done the things he has... Or that you're the same person in the LEAST bit.
But there will always be people who have similar personality types.
You and BobCat (as much as you seem to loathe hearing it...) have a similar personality.

Of course, there are always people who can be catagorized into groups of personalities... I see it around here ALL the time. =P
And it's good, sometimes... Because it helps you know how to act or treat a certian set of people, because they will likely react in a similar way.

Hurt for it? Far from it. I'm simply feeling insulted at the comparison. I'm always willing to hear you out, Ryo, because you give wise counsel, but comparing me to BC is way wrong. The only thing I have in common is that I a m a strict person, but out of necessity.

Fact is, I haven't been allowed to rest since leaving MA, and have trouble forgetting because of people dredging up the past with snide remarks. The examples I gave are good ones, if you care to look them up.

But I am entitled to despise a person whose obsession drove me out of a forum I loved, as well as changing it in such a way that it's become a hooligans' paradise. I LOVED that place, once. But it had become a hate forum, so I had to leave because I couldn't be in such a place.

What I am after is being allowed to post in peace, and ensure members, old and new, learn to respect my views as they are. To wit: No crass remarks at me, or to people who would naturally take offence. Those are best left among people of similar temperament.

And I do want to ensure that people learn to respect other current members regardless of where they are from. This hate business towards Gaians is so pointless and stupid, it's beyond belief, and it's been getting them down, as well as making me feel increasingly concerned. Hate doesn't belong here.

I'd not be human if I didn't dislike the behaviour of certain people. That doesn't mean I resent them personally, but rather how they act. This forum could be better than that.

[☼Pepe☼]

Originally Posted by Dark Evangel

Just do not DARE to compare me to BC again.

I'd take something like that as a compliment.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

You cant punish someone for expressing opinion... You can, however, do it when it's direct insult to the person.
Though, the problem, as mentioned in above posts after yours... Is interpretation...
That's why reason and proof will be submitted, and someone other than the one 'insulted' will be making the decision.

And what if the person making the decision does see how it can be insulting, while others wouldn't?

We can't have people judging based on their opinion of what an insult is. We need to make it in such a way that no matter who looks at it, it will be seen as the same thing.


[quote=Ryo Misaki;286378]No. Not banning. Infracting.
And yes... Infracting DOES lead to an auto-ban... But that's after five times.
Please keep in mind... NEVER do I talk about carelessly swinging the Ban-Hammer. I'm SERIOUSLY against that.
I'm talking about infracting people for SERIOUS insults and flaming.[/quote[
Infracting is more reasonable.

But we still have to find a way to make this system not governed purely by opinion.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Expressing an opinion is not in insult. "zzz Negima" (classic Selo) or "Anime sucks!" are opinions and NOT direct insults. Granted, they are childish, and I wish people would take more care with their words... But they will never be infracted. (Even if someone DID want to report that, I would trust that the Mod receiving the report would not be stupid enough to infract for it. It would be over-ruled.)

As I said before:
I have made remarks like that before.
I was punished for it.


And what about saying stuff like "Gaia stinks"? It's just our opinion, yet lots of people are insulted by it.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

However, if you attack someone for their opinion... "If you can honestly like something like Negima, you are a worthless sack of ****." THAT is directly offensive, and I'd call someone on it. And if it happens again, I'd reccomend an infraction.

The obvious is already easy to spot, and doesn't even need to go through your complicated process.

It's the stuff that isn't obvious that we need to focus on, since that's what brings most riots.

People can say something insulting without directly insulting the person, and that's what makes the problems.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

I agree... Technical and Specific rules are in need. But how can we define that? "Direct insults, flames, harassment, or attacks." is about the best I can do. Any better ideas?

If you don't have any other way to explain it in a more technical manner, you might as well scratch this idea.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Besides, almost everything is questionable... That's why someone needs to be able to judge soundly... Opinions and Emotions are troublesome... That's why my suggested method has someone else do it. (In the case of a member, they cant do it anyway, but they can report. If it's a mod who feels insulted, they should report to someone higher up.) This is in hopes of eliminating the emotional attachment that people get when they are directly involved in a conflict themselves.

Even if someone else does it, it will still be governed by opinion.
What one admin finds insulting could seem normal to another admin.
So lets say that one type of insult is given. The admin in charge doesn't find it too major, and doesn't infract for it.

A few days later, the same insult is put up. This time, another admin takes charge, yet finds it insulting. And infracts for it.

Member B will notice he was infracted yet Member A wasn't.
Causing riot, and much more drama. :]

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Again, I've mentioned... Mods SHOULD be biased and neutral. Decisions should not be made from personal emotion or opinion, but because of careful analysis of the facts.

Whether mods are unbiased (biased mods are NOT good. ), they will still have a certain opinion on what an insult is.
And that's what we can't control.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

But I'm pretty sure I've covered most of the bases to account for flaws. (Requiring proof. Infracting, not banning. Allowing a decision to be appealed, and admins and staff can review the evidence posted.)

There's still the integral flaw that mods and admins can and will have different opinions on insults. And, as I stated above, if we can't make it the same for every instance, then we shouldn't even make it at all.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Is this not fair?

Not yet. :]
But at least we solved the problem as to the fact that insulting is not a bannable offense.