No Drama.

[Ryo Misaki]

Ok... so I wanted to make this more pointed and ranty...
But I've calmed a bit since then, so I wont.

Anyway, I'm tired of this drama on the forums. If it's not one thing, it's another.
People insulting others. People taking offense. People talking about banning, unfairness, reform, revolution...
Why? Why the hell is this all going on?
It's point less and stupid. And frankly, it's making the forum a miserable place.

So... I propose a No Drama policy.
...of course... something like this is hard to inforce...
It'll have to be mostly self governed... by those who have any shred of common sense on the forum.

The point of this place has been, and has ALWAYS been to have fun.
Fun is good... And I'm sure most of you are having it.
However... when YOUR idea of 'fun' is disrupting peace, or causing problems for one or more members on the forum... Then we've lost our point.
So why? It's not THAT difficult to respect others, is it? It's not TOO hard to not say something that might hurt or offend someone, is it?
...and yet... it's done anyway. Stupid, stupid people... =P

So... Self Governing is the first step...
~Be aware of your surroundings. Notice who is there, and how they might take to something you say.
~Be careful of what you say... If it may hurt/offend someone... Dont say it! I dont care if you believe it... If you really have a problem with someone that you feel that should be taken care of... Discuss it with them personally (in a PM), or with someone higher up. Keep it OFF the ShoutBox, and out of the main forums!
~Stop conflict. If you see it happening... If you see people arguing excessively (not debating, because that's difference. If you dont know the difference, learn it.), tell them to stop. At worse case, they will simply ignore you and continue. That's when you involve someone higher.
~Report problems. If you see a problem... Report it. That's what we have Mods, GMods, and Admins for... If people are being flamed, insulted, and harassed... And they're NOT getting infracted for it (Yes, people... It's an infractible offense. True story. Its in the rules, perhaps you should read!), then Mods arent doing their job. If someone sees someone, or perhaps themself being mistreated... Take evidence (Copy text from ShoutBox, or a link to the post, or even take a ScreenShot.) and send it in a PM to a GMod or Admin. (To be certian... I'd say to send it to all five! Hina, Riza, Betong, Panzy, and Silas)


That all applies to general members... Those who cant do anything about it...
Now for the people who can (and bloody well SHOULD do something about it...).

Mods, GMods, Admins... I speak to you.

First of all... There seems to be problems with people being 'unfairly' infracted or banned.
While I share the opinion that an Administrative decision is done for a REASON... And those who dont like it should simply stuff it... It's clear that isnt going to work.

I propose a thread in the Staff forum. In which when someone is infracted, it is posted in the thread by the one who infracts... ALONG with a proper, detailed reason as to WHY they were infracted. "They were flaming." is no longer simply a valid excuse.
To cover asses... Infractions should not be done without evidence of the violation. If people are going to question... then by all means, let's be bureaucratic! =P

Remember how I mentioned that people should keep text logs or screenshots of problems that occur? This is where it comes into play.
Do not simply infract. At the time of the violation, save all records. People can always question 'witness accounts' or 'sides of the story'... But raw logs of fact CAN NOT be denied. Ever.
Save the evidence, infract, and post this entry in the thread. That way, when it is questioned "why the hell was I infracted?" there is undeniable proof.

Also, I propose... If a mod themselves feels insulted or offended... They SHOULD NOT INFRACT the person that is doing it. Instead, they should save the evidence (or someone else present should) and send it to someone higher. If a mod, send to GMod or Admin. If GMod, send to Admin. If an Admin... (And I'm not aware of many accounts of Admins being insulted... Other than the BobCat Incident) then it should be discussed with the other two admins.
Why? This is to defend against people who say, "You're just being a ***** because you took it the wrong way."
If a third party does it instead... (And following the same procedure as above... With the evidence posted) then there cannot be any refutation of the infraction.

Lastly... Flaming and insult infractions (when administered properly) should stay permanently. UNLESS decided by a discussion of Admins that the infraction count should be decreased because of an extended time of 'good behavior'.
I also believe that it should take 5 insult/flaming infractions for a ban to occur.
Bans should NEVER be outright. Instead, bans should happen through infractions.

I'm also an advocate of Mods not having the power to ban. I've always been... but decisions are not mine... I can only offer suggestions.

These negative interactions between members is having a HUUGELY negative impact on our community... To the point that I almost believe it could lead to a "civil war".
These ideas of mine have been thought through for quite a while now, and I believe them to be entirely fair to all parties involved.

Remember, harassment (weither you define it as one time, or multiple), insulting, and flaming are SEVERE offenses...
We here at AnimeB are VERY leinent when it comes to this...
Perhaps you were unaware... that almost EVERY OTHER FORUM throws the Ban-Hammer around like it was nothing. They dont care... You're just another n00b to them.
You flame someone, you get banned. You so much as QUESTION a Mod, GMod, or Admin? You get BANNED!
That doesnt happen here... Perhaps it should. Perhaps we should simply be run by a bunch of uptight assholes who DONT CARE if you consider their decision to be unfair.
And guess what... THOSE forums dont have the problems that we do. THOSE FORUMS dont have this senseless squabbling between members...

Again, we're not those forums. We care. And we're going through hell because of it.
I believe that this is the least we can do.

Thank you. ^__^

[KC]

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

I propose a thread in the Staff forum. In which when someone is infracted, it is posted in the thread by the one who infracts... ALONG with a proper, detailed reason as to WHY they were infracted. "They were flaming." is no longer simply a valid excuse.

I'm also an advocate of Mods not having the power to ban. I've always been... but decisions are not mine... I can only offer suggestions.

these are the only two points in this post that i agree with. Other than that, I thumb my nose at this sir.

[ShinNoNoir]

Well said Mr Negotiator, the only problem i see is the fact that too many people just don't know any better so i'm not convinced things will change. Some are just venting there RL frustration around, some are just plain immature (not necessarily related to how old they are).. seriously, some people need to let bygones be bygones and move one.

[☼Pepe☼]

¬_¬


I would like to, once again, bring up my bully analogy.
Imagine AnimeB was a school. We would have our share of good, contributing members, and we'd have bullies.

Bullies insult, hurt, tease, etc just for the fun of it.
But schools do not have the right to punish them for that. They can give them a slap on the wrist and let them go on their merry way, but they really can't expel them simply for insulting other people.

Sure, if the bully severely hurts someone else, then the school can punish him severely. But if it's simply just harassing and teasing, nothing can be done.


So we can't punish members for insulting because that would simply be going too far.

[Nani?]

Just to inform you all, I barely skimmed the first post. It seemed like alot of soft shtuff, and then apparently something about banning for Harrassment...

This seems to coincide with some huge movement to stop people from recieving any pain at all in their life. God, it's sickening.

Anyway, I basically agree with what Pepe says. You CAN punish someone for Harrassment, but you can't ban them. That's just stupidity.

[Ryo Misaki]

Originally Posted by KC

these are the only two points in this post that i agree with. Other than that, I thumb my nose at this sir.

If even the Great KeiCanad can agree with two of my most important points... Then I've done my job well. ^__^

Originally Posted by ShinNoNoir

Well said Mr Negotiator, the only problem i see is the fact that too many people just don't know any better so i'm not convinced things will change. Some are just venting there RL frustration around, some are just plain immature (not necessarily related to how old they are).. seriously, some people need to let bygones be bygones and move one.

Of course, I agree full... We have horribly immature people at times... And tons of people who love to hold grudges till the end of days.
But stopping that is a little difficult.
At least this should help many things from a Moderation/Administrative standpoint.

As far as not 'knowing any better'... I intend to educate people better with this.
Also, having a 'third person perspective' by reporting issues with 'evidence' should help to eliminate trivial complaints, as it will be determined by someone not involved with he incident. (As I believe that the people directly involved have too much 'emotion' attached to judge rationally.)
I would HOPE that our Mods, GMods, and Admins have enough rational logic to be able to handle such manner properly. I expect they were chosen for HAVING these qualities.

FURTHERMORE... As sometimes it is not always the case... Infractions CAN be petitioned if considered unfair. In which case, any and all staff can and SHOULD read the 'detailed report' in the suggested thread with the factual evidence, and give their view on the issue.
If enough people believe an infraction to be unfair, an Admin can remove it.

Originally Posted by Pepe

I would like to, once again, bring up my bully analogy.
Imagine AnimeB was a school. We would have our share of good, contributing members, and we'd have bullies.

Bullies insult, hurt, tease, etc just for the fun of it.
But schools do not have the right to punish them for that. They can give them a slap on the wrist and let them go on their merry way, but they really can't expel them simply for insulting other people.

Sure, if the bully severely hurts someone else, then the school can punish him severely. But if it's simply just harassing and teasing, nothing can be done.

So we can't punish members for insulting because that would simply be going too far.

Bullies, Pepe? Granted... Trolls, Flamers and such are VERY close to 'internet bullies'.
And true... in our flawed school system, bullies often go under the radar.
Why is this? Not because bullying is alright... No because it's accepted or allowed...

But mostly because the victim is too afraid to mention it.
Bullies arent a good thing. Granted, there are SOME people who can take it... But there are some who cant.
There are kids who have commited suicide because of a bully's 'harmless fun'. There are school systems, bullies, and bullies' families that have been sued over these actions.

AnimeB has been one of those haywire 'Public Schools' for too long.
Insults, group intimidation/harassment, flaming, trolling, and "bullying" is something I WILL NOT tolerate.

Should you have the urge to make fun of someone... By all means, pick on me.
I love it, and I dont give a damn.
But if you're going to do it to someone else, I promise you, I will have you infracted by the guidelines I've stated above. ^_~

And if you dont like it... You can ****** off. I dont need to be surrounded by people who cant have the courtesy to treat others with respect.

(Also note... such treatment is questionable... And in the end, is up to the person who is being 'victimized' to decide if it's too far or not. Just as it's the kid's choice to report bullying or not. I dont mind being picked on... I can take it. You're meaningless, and I dont care what you say to me. But others may not feel the same way when you insult them.)

Originally Posted by Nani

This seems to coincide with some huge movement to stop people from recieving any pain at all in their life. God, it's sickening.

Anyway, I basically agree with what Pepe says. You CAN punish someone for Harrassment, but you can't ban them. That's just stupidity.

I agree in some respects... I'd love for all people to suck it up and be able to take a joke.
But not all people are as 'strong' or easy going as some of us. (Come on... I dare you to offend me. You cant. =P)

When the entire forum is concerned... One side cant be taken alone. There must be an attempt for balance.
And... this is a place for people to have fun and discuss the things they like... Not to be attacked for who they are, what the like, where they're from, or what they think.

And yes... People shouldnt be banned for it... I'm not suggesting a ban.
I'm suggesting a 'punishment', which is an Infraction.
If the person is foolish enough to keep it up 4 more times (as I mentioned, a 5 time rule for infractions of Insulting/Flaming)...
Then they get auto-banned because of the forum rules.

I believe this to be perfectly fair.

What I said about 'banning for harassment' is that other forums do it.
Seriously. Go visit some. You'll find that VERY few places take the amount of **** that we do here.
Most places are EXTREMELY strict, and will weild the BanHammer frequently. =P

[!]

The ironic thing is that this thread is full of drama

[Ryo Misaki]

...perhaps... Troublesome indeed... =P
But I'd rather it aimed at me, than between others.

So how about giving your almighty opinion so we may advance towards the dramatic conclusion?

[Tyroki]

There will be no conclusion -.- Merely the end to minor pieces of the story. The drama, however, will live on.

Long live AnimeBDrama!

[☼Pepe☼]

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Of course, I agree full... We have horribly immature people at times... And tons of people who love to hold grudges till the end of days.

Now now..
What's so bad about holding a grudge?
Even the best of the best have their little grudges..

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Bullies, Pepe? Granted... Trolls, Flamers and such are VERY close to 'internet bullies'.
And true... in our flawed school system, bullies often go under the radar.
Why is this? Not because bullying is alright... No because it's accepted or allowed...
But mostly because the victim is too afraid to mention it.

I can't believe that. I know what happens to bullies in a school system, both from experience as the victim and the doer.
They give you a slap on the wrist, and let you go on their merry way.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

Bullies arent a good thing. Granted, there are SOME people who can take it... But there are some who cant.
There are kids who have commited suicide because of a bully's 'harmless fun'. There are school systems, bullies, and bullies' families that have been sued over these actions.

AnimeB has been one of those haywire 'Public Schools' for too long.
Insults, group intimidation/harassment, flaming, trolling, and "bullying" is something I WILL NOT tolerate.

Should you have the urge to make fun of someone... By all means, pick on me.
I love it, and I dont give a damn.
But if you're going to do it to someone else, I promise you, I will have you infracted by the guidelines I've stated above. ^_~

Oh what?
You want to have a rule that says "Insulting is allowed for people who can handle it". ¬_¬
A rule either affects all or none at all.

And I just cannot accept having a rule against insulting.
Because IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL
Flaming is different from bullying and insulting, mind you.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

(Also note... such treatment is questionable... And in the end, is up to the person who is being 'victimized' to decide if it's too far or not. Just as it's the kid's choice to report bullying or not. I dont mind being picked on... I can take it. You're meaningless, and I dont care what you say to me. But others may not feel the same way when you insult them.)

I repeat. You either make a rule that affects all or none at all.
Making it legal to insult people who can handle it, while making it illegal to those who can't just won't work.

Originally Posted by Ryo Misaki

I agree in some respects... I'd love for all people to suck it up and be able to take a joke.
But not all people are as 'strong' or easy going as some of us. (Come on... I dare you to offend me. You cant. =P)

And you're saying we give consideration to them?
A person is a person no matter who they are and what we do.

What you're saying now is that we should treat each other differently.
That's discrimination, isn't it?



IN CONCLUSION:
Make up your mind Ryo.
We give infractions for insulting or we don't.
No considerations for people who can handle it.

Either yes or no.

[The Emperor]

Well said Ryo, in recent months, we've seen more drama than anything else. Dramanimeb.com needs sorting, we deal with too much crap.

Recent months...Almost the same time silas got Gmod